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Spell checker is confused by punctuation


#1
  1. Typing 3 periods for an ellipses is automatically contracted into a single ellipses character. This is annoying because IMO it looks bad and unprofessional from a typography perspective. just as there is a setting to enable/disable replacing smart quotes and double dashes as you type, there should also be the option to disable replacing the ellipses as you type.

  2. The ellipses character that it creates is not recognized as a punctuation character, which causes whatever word was written before the ellipses to be highlighted as a spelling error. This is annoying.


#2

Typing three periods is NOT equal to an ellipsis, Pebble. The spell check is trying to correct a triple period of course. That’s a normal behavior.

The ellipsis is considered a special character. It looks like three periods, but the space between them is different in an ellipsis.

You can use your numerical keypad for entering this special character. Use the left [Alt] key, keep it pressed and type at the keypad 0133. The ellipsis appears after releasing the [Alt] key again. The spell checker should recognize this as an ellipsis and ignore it.

Hans


#3

The spell checker seems to be working correctly for me when using the ellipses character. Can you give me an example of some text where it’s going wrong?


#4

“Typing three periods is NOT equal to an ellipsis, Pebble.”

I’m sorry, but you are incorrect. In the English language, a series of three periods is called an ellipsis. It is a valid form of punctuation that is in common usage. It is also valid to use a single ellipsis character, but this is less common.

Quote from the article below: “The most common form of an ellipsis is a row of three periods or full points (…) or a precomposed triple-dot glyph”

“The spell check is trying to correct a triple period of course. That’s a normal behavior.”

  1. As explained above, a triple period is a valid form of punctuation in English, and is in fact the most common method of representing an ellipsis. It would therefore not be appropriate for the spell checker to flag this, as it would not be an error.

  2. My document does not contain any triple periods, although I would like it to. Whenever I try to type three periods in a row, Atomic Scribbler automatically deletes those three characters and replaces them with a single ellipsis character. The spellchecker then highlights any words adjacent to the ellipsis character it just created…

"You can use your numerical keypad for entering this special character. Use the left [Alt] key, keep it pressed and type at the keypad 0133. The ellipsis appears after releasing the [Alt] key again. "

Your method of entry does not work for me. When I hold down the left Alt key and press the numbers, the computer emits a ding warning sound and nothing appears on the screen. However, it is easy to insert the U+2026 horizontal ellipse special character using the character map. Anyway, I do not want to create any ellipsis characters.

“The ellipsis is considered a special character. It looks like three periods, but the space between them is different in an ellipsis.”

I noticed that the ellipsis character which is automatically created in Atomic Scribbler when I type three periods is not the same as the U+2026 special character. Anyway, they both look terrible. I would like my document to contain standard ellipsis rendered in the standard way, composed of three separate period characters, not a condensed triple-dot glyph.

“The spell checker seems to be working correctly for me when using the ellipses character. Can you give me an example of some text where it’s going wrong?”

Type any word followed by three periods (e.g., “The…”) and you will see the last three period characters automatically replaced with a single ellipsis character, and the word “The” will become highlighted by the spellchecker.

Another related issue:

It would be nice if the spellchecker had an option to ignore proper nouns, as indicated by having a capital first letter when they do not start a sentence.


#5

The default in Word is for three dots to be replaced by an ellipsis. I’m sticking with this for now. As with Word, a Ctrl+Z undo action after the ellipsis will undo the auto-change and roll back to three dots. I might add an option for this, but no user has raised this as an issue apart from yourself, so I don’t see it being widely used despite what the Wikipedia article says.

I’m not seeing that behaviour when I duplicate your text — see below. Only the misspelled word is highlighted and the ellipsis are not. Are you using the most recent version of Atomic Scribbler? There was an issue with the spell checker way back in version 1 — over a year ago.

ellipsis

That’s interesting, but then you wouldn’t catch misspelled proper nouns. Take a central character called Joe Bagadonuts, where you add Bagadonuts to the dictionary as a valid word. No red underline unless it’s misspelled. But if proper nouns are ignored, Joe Bagofdonuts slips through.


#6

“The default in Word is for three dots to be replaced by an ellipsis”

Well, I have been using various versions of MS Word for nearly 30 years and it’s never replaced three periods with an an ellipsis character for me. I currently have Word 2013 installed and it does not do that – I just checked. LibreOffice does it, but the ellipses character in Libre office has wider spacing than three separate periods, so it still looks good, unlike the ellipses in Atomic Scribbler which condenses three periods down to the size of a single character.

The reason I do not like the ellipsis character is twofold: 1) it makes the writing look inconsistent with the vast majority of standard American literature and typography, 2) it causes the ellipsis to lose it’s “feeling” which was originally intended intentionally to convey a long pause. When the periods are separated by spaces, it properly conveys a pause. When the periods are all crammed together, it no longer conveys that impression visually.

“a Ctrl+Z undo action after the ellipsis will undo the auto-change and roll back to three dots”

OK, good to know at least there is some possible way of creating a normal ellipsis…although that is certainly a hassle, given how commonly the ellipsis can come up in dialogue.

“I might add an option for this, but no user has raised this as an issue apart from yourself…”

You have a checkbox in the setting to enable every other “replace as you type” feature such as em-dashes and quotations. Why would you not put a setting to enable the ellipsis there for consistency of the user interface?

Also, just because I’m the only person who commented, does not mean that I’m the only person who has been annoyed by it. I’ve been using Atomic Scribbler for months, and my main gripe with the software is this god damn ellipsis issue. I created a user account for the sole purpose of reporting this issue.

“no user has raised this as an issue apart from yourself, so I don’t see it being widely used despite what the Wikipedia article says.”

You should not need to take my word for it, or Wikipedia’s word for it, just pay more attention to the usage of punctuation in common print forms and you can observe for yourself that in the vast majority of the time where an ellipsis is used, the spacing is not condensed into the space of a single character!

“I’m not seeing that behaviour when I duplicate your text — see below. Only the misspelled word is highlighted and the ellipsis are not. Are you using the most recent version of Atomic Scribbler?”

I was having the issue using 5.1 and I upgraded this afternoon to version 6 and am still having the issue. Every single word that comes before or after an ellipses is highlighted by the spellchecker.

“That’s interesting, but then you wouldn’t catch misspelled proper nouns.”

That’s a good point. However, I dislike adding proper nouns to the dictionary because this would effect all future works with Atomic Scribbler, and would cause it to incorrectly miss instances where it was used as a non-proper noun. For example, there might be a character called “Blu” and if you add Blu to the dictionary, then writing something else later you might write “the sky is blu” and it would fail to detect it. Therefore, I would prefer to simply have the spellchecker disabled for things that are clearly proper nouns. There is a setting already to “Ignore words in MiXeD case” and “Ignore words in UPPERCASE” but I was surprised that were was no option here to ignore words that start in uppercase.


#7

[quote=“pebble, post:6, topic:319”]

The reason I do not like the ellipsis character is twofold: 1) it makes the writing look inconsistent with the vast majority of standard American literature and typography, 2) it causes the ellipsis to lose it’s “feeling” which was originally intended intentionally to convey a long pause. When the periods are separated by spaces, it properly conveys a pause. When the periods are all crammed together, it no longer conveys that impression visually.<<

If you really want to stick to using three periods, then there is another way for you to do this. Below is a text copy from the The Associated Press Stylebook 2015 that might help. Especially when you cite American literature and typography. It doesn’t get more official than with references from either Associated Press or CMOS (Chicago Manual of Style).

Agreed, it’s the AP 2015 edition, but for this part nothing has changed. You may find something similar checking the CMOS reference.

=== excerpt from AP Stylebook ===
PUNCTUATION GUIDELINES: If the words that precede an ellipsis constitute a grammatically complete sentence, either in the original or in the condensation, place a period at the end of the last word before the ellipsis.
Follow it with a regular space and an ellipsis: I no longer have a strong enough political base. …
Associated Press. The Associated Press Stylebook 2015 (p. 301).
=== end of excerpt ===

Maybe that works for you. :slight_smile:
Hans


#8

Huh? You’re saying that rather than fix the operation of the spell checker so that it doesn’t incorrectly flag all words before and after an ellipse, the solution should be to insert a space? Are you kidding me? Why are you so averse to a spell checker that functions properly?

And this “solution” does nothing to fix the two main issues reported here:

  1. The involuntary contraction of three periods into a single glyph
  2. The incorrect operation of the spell checker when there is an incomplete sentence preceding the ellipsis

#9

I see what the problem is now. The spell checker is marking words around ellipsis as incorrect, but only when there are no spaces after the ellipsis.

ellipsis

I’ll see about getting this fixed, but as the word processor is a third party component it will take a while.


#10

Pebble, I’m not averse to spellcheckers. All I posted for you was the excerpt from the official Associated Press Stylebook with its guidelines for journalists, about a correct writing style for publications.

My reference to CMOS was added as this is the style reference fiction writers go by (in contrast to the AP reference for non-fiction).

Besides, we all know that spellcheckers are not perfect, and often enough need to be ignored, requiring a workaround. Those who mainly use Word can tell stories about its often ridiculous flagging. I guess that includes you, using so many versions of it over the years.

Have a great day.


#11

@pebble - I’m in agreement with you. I don’t like the automatic conversion to the compact ellipsis character, and I always use Ctrl-Z to undo the conversion. It would be nicer to just turn off the automatic conversion. When designing for high-end print publication, I would never use that glyph. But then I always add a thinspace either side of an EM-dash, too…

Allen